Did Obama forge his birth certificate

Post by thedarkman
I don't have the slightest interest in this but this guy asks some
interesting questions and appears to present the evidence to back them
up.
http://snardfarker.ning.com/video/barack-obamas-long-form-birth?xg_source=msg_mes_network

That was an inevitability.
As soon as Obama issued his birth certificate it was inevitable that the
goalposts would shift to forgery. If he produces witnesses they will
have been coerced, bribed etc.
Once a conspiracy starts there will always be people who will stoke it
regardless of the evidence - just look at the Moon Landing conspiracists.

Andy

Maria

2011-05-04 13:01:56 UTC

So why does his birth certificate have ten layers with different parts
in them like that? The only argument I have seen against it being a
forgery is that it is not possible for someone to have gone to all the
trouble to forge the document and then forget to merge the layers.

Periander

2011-05-04 13:39:12 UTC

Post by Maria
So why does his birth certificate have ten layers with different parts
in them like that? The only argument I have seen against it being a
forgery is that it is not possible for someone to have gone to all the
trouble to forge the document and then forget to merge the layers.

I produce a lot of PDFs, multiple layers on a single source document are
far from unusual and may exist for a whole range of mundane reasons.

Most usually when a document is scanned into a word processing program -
such as Word and converted to a PDF from there. And just for the
avoidence of doubt the vast majority of scanners will unless otherwised
configured automatically open a scaned document into the default word
processing program. The word processing software will then assign layers
accoring to it's presets ...

for instance ...

"That's a picture", I'm going to put it in picture frame" (says the word
processing software), "That's text, I'm going to put it in a text box",
"That's a sqiggle, not to sure so I'll make a guess that it's a picture
and put it into another picture box", "Oh those are lines, they must be
part of the background format so that's where I'll put them" ... and so
on and on and on and on ...

When exported to Acrobat (or whatever your conversion program is) the
Word prosessor layers are exported at the same time.

Apologies for not stoking the flames.

--
Regards,

Periander

Maria

2011-05-04 13:43:36 UTC

Post by Periander

I produce a lot of PDFs, multiple layers on a single source document are
far from unusual and may exist for a whole range of mundane reasons.
Most usually when a document is scanned into a word processing program -
such as Word and converted to a PDF from there. And just for the
avoidence of doubt the vast majority of scanners will unless otherwised
configured automatically open a scaned document into the default word
processing program. The word processing software will then assign layers
accoring to it's presets ...
for instance ...
"That's a picture", I'm going to put it in picture frame" (says the word
processing software), "That's text, I'm going to put it in a text box",
"That's a sqiggle, not to sure so I'll make a guess that it's a picture
and put it into another picture box", "Oh those are lines, they must be
part of the background format so that's where I'll put them" ... and so
on and on and on and on ...
When exported to Acrobat (or whatever your conversion program is) the
Word prosessor layers are exported at the same time.
Apologies for not stoking the flames.

No, that's a helpful explanation for someone who doesn't know - thanks.

Periander

2011-05-04 13:59:08 UTC

Post by Maria

Post by Periander
Apologies for not stoking the flames.

No, that's a helpful explanation for someone who doesn't know - thanks.

You're welcome, isn't it nice to have a civilised exchange in these groups
every now and then, I must try it again in a month or two :-)

--
Regards,

Periander

AndyW

2011-05-04 14:25:48 UTC

Post by Periander

I produce a lot of PDFs, multiple layers on a single source document are
far from unusual and may exist for a whole range of mundane reasons.
Most usually when a document is scanned into a word processing program -
such as Word and converted to a PDF from there. And just for the
avoidence of doubt the vast majority of scanners will unless otherwised
configured automatically open a scaned document into the default word
processing program. The word processing software will then assign layers
accoring to it's presets ...
for instance ...
"That's a picture", I'm going to put it in picture frame" (says the word
processing software), "That's text, I'm going to put it in a text box",
"That's a sqiggle, not to sure so I'll make a guess that it's a picture
and put it into another picture box", "Oh those are lines, they must be
part of the background format so that's where I'll put them" ... and so
on and on and on and on ...
When exported to Acrobat (or whatever your conversion program is) the
Word prosessor layers are exported at the same time.
Apologies for not stoking the flames.

Beat me to it.
PDFs (especially mixed content PDFs) are often stored in multiple
layers. I often work with PDFs as it is the simplest way to send out a
contractual document without the risk of covert editing that sending
text carries. A lot of the documents that I get in from suppliers come
in a format that I have to import into PDF to allow the IETP
(interactive electronic technical publications) people to set up 'smart
manuals'
Multi layer is the norm IME.

Andy

Seth

2011-05-04 15:56:09 UTC

Post by AndyW
I often work with PDFs as it is the simplest way to send out a
contractual document without the risk of covert editing that sending
text carries.

PDFs are editable by the recipient. The fact that they're more
credible indicates (to me) that they're a worse option.

Digital signatures can be applied to text or PDF, and make the result
much harder to edit undetected.

Seth

Gordon Burditt

2011-05-04 13:45:52 UTC

Post by Maria
So why does his birth certificate have ten layers with different parts
in them like that?

Since when can a *PAPER* document have layers? (I'm sure you didn't
actually get your hands on the paper document, though). I'm sure
it wasn't scanned in the year Obama was born.

Post by Maria
The only argument I have seen against it being a
forgery is that it is not possible for someone to have gone to all the
trouble to forge the document and then forget to merge the layers.

Obama *wants* the birthers to look like nutcases, and Republicans
to have to waste time to distance themselves from them. He couldn't
get better publicity if he paid for it (assuming he isn't paying
some of them for it). So why couldn't he (or someone doing it for
him) take a genuine document and forge it to look like a forgery?

Richard McKenzie

2011-05-04 14:52:47 UTC

I agree, i think the only conspiracy is Donald Trumps hair - is it
his, is it a transplant ? I guess we will never...
Tell me how'd it happen for God's sake, why does the sun come up? or
are the stars just pin holes in the curtain of night, who knows? what
I do know is that because Trump was born different, men will fear
him...and hopefully drive him out of Aberdeen, he must try and
conceal his baldness and harness it until the time of the parting.

Day Brown

2011-05-09 00:09:05 UTC

Moon shot & halocaust denial, GW denial, and this are all part of a
media smoke screen to help keep a lid on 911 as if it is in the same class.

"Be careful what you wish for." if Obama is dismissed, the Biden takes
over, who knows where the closets of skeletons in DC are. He has far
less charisma, but will have far more real power to manipulate the
system. History shows how often it is the successing VP who turns out to
be the real reformer.

Bill Graham

2011-05-10 00:03:11 UTC

Post by Day Brown

Post by thedarkman
I don't have the slightest interest in this but this guy asks some
interesting questions and appears to present the evidence to back
them up.
http://snardfarker.ning.com/video/barack-obamas-long-form-birth?xg_source=msg_mes_network

That was an inevitability.
As soon as Obama issued his birth certificate it was inevitable that
the goalposts would shift to forgery. If he produces witnesses they
will have been coerced, bribed etc.
Once a conspiracy starts there will always be people who will stoke
it regardless of the evidence - just look at the Moon Landing
conspiracists.

Moon shot & halocaust denial, GW denial, and this are all part of a
media smoke screen to help keep a lid on 911 as if it is in the same class.
"Be careful what you wish for." if Obama is dismissed, the Biden takes
over, who knows where the closets of skeletons in DC are. He has far
less charisma, but will have far more real power to manipulate the
system. History shows how often it is the successing VP who turns out
to be the real reformer.

I have known for a long time now that the whole universe has been created
just to give me a hard time.... It is a huge conspiracy put here just for
that purpose.....

Day Brown

2011-05-10 05:43:47 UTC

Post by Bill Graham
I have known for a long time now that the whole universe has been
created just to give me a hard time.... It is a huge conspiracy put here
just for that purpose.....

Back when the shrinks went to Haight/Ashbury, they found the Acidheads
had anti-paranoia. They thot reality was a conspiracy organized for
their benefit.

I admit Murphy's law applies in a myriad small ways in my own small
life. But that which failed to kill me has made me stronger. Course, at
71, there's still time. but enuf time to get smart. Read Machiavelli.

it dont matter whether his birth certificate is a forgery. His bigger
problem is the target on the back of his head and some whacko wanting
his name to go down in history. Which would make Biden Obama's LBJ.

I'd tell them to think about that, but its not something they do well.

Jason

2011-05-04 14:08:37 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2011 04:46:48 -0700 (PDT), thedarkman

Post by thedarkman
I don't have the slightest interest in this

Deary deary deary me!
.

--------------------------
The Internet will become the
Sacred Sanctuary for Nutters,Idiots
And Trolls

(Michel Nostradamus, December 14, 1503 - July 2, 1566).
--------------------------

richard

2011-05-04 17:03:02 UTC

I will say this, the man has a point. If that document had not been
photochopped, parts would not be able to be turned on or off at will, moved
around or what ever.

However, this is what a high quality photochopping program does.
I saw one video recently where one program has what they call a "puppet"
feature. Where the guy took the arm of the person and showed how the arm
could be manipulated about.

Then again, after two years, that so called form could have been forged
easily. You design the forms text area and have that printed. Find an old
typewriter that matched the one used by that hospital. Type in the data,
add the signatures, emboss the state seal and poof!, you have your birth
certificate. Yeah? How did they get the state seal? The federal government
can get anything they want, or create it.

Cynic

2011-05-04 17:56:51 UTC

Post by richard

I will say this, the man has a point. If that document had not been
photochopped, parts would not be able to be turned on or off at will, moved
around or what ever.

As Periander has pointed out, many modern programs are far too clever,
and a scanned document will automatically be divided into text areas,
frame areas, picture areas etc. before being placed into a document.

It's happened to me - all I wanted was a simple BMP of a form, but the
computer I used opened a program that automatically hacked it up into
several different parts.

--
Cynic

Evan Platt

2011-05-05 03:34:40 UTC

Post by richard
I will say this, the man has a point. If that document had not been
photochopped, parts would not be able to be turned on or off at will, moved
around or what ever.

Umm actually no. A number of photo editing applications automatically
create "layers".

Do some research for once first, bullis.

--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.

Evan Platt

2011-05-05 05:28:52 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2011 20:34:40 -0700, Evan Platt

Post by Evan Platt

Post by richard
I will say this, the man has a point. If that document had not been
photochopped, parts would not be able to be turned on or off at will, moved
around or what ever.

Umm actually no. A number of photo editing applications automatically
create "layers".
Do some research for once first, bullis.

PS Bullis:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/265767/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding

And since I know you have problems reading, here's an explanation with
pretty pictures.

--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.

richard

2011-05-05 07:38:13 UTC

Post by Evan Platt
On Wed, 04 May 2011 20:34:40 -0700, Evan Platt

Post by Evan Platt

Post by richard
I will say this, the man has a point. If that document had not been
photochopped, parts would not be able to be turned on or off at will, moved
around or what ever.

Umm actually no. A number of photo editing applications automatically
create "layers".
Do some research for once first, bullis.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/265767/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding
And since I know you have problems reading, here's an explanation with
pretty pictures.
http://youtu.be/XcWQw2AAIho

I was pointing out, that given the time, proper tools, anyone can reproduce
an authentic looking document, including one of the original constitution.

Evan Platt

2011-05-05 14:08:07 UTC

Post by richard
I was pointing out, that given the time, proper tools, anyone can reproduce
an authentic looking document, including one of the original constitution.

No you weren't.

Not at all.

Backpedal, bullshit bullis, backpedal.

--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.

Ray Fischer

2011-05-05 09:29:52 UTC

Post by richard
I will say this, the man has a point. If that document had not been
photochopped, parts would not be able to be turned on or off at will, moved
around or what ever.

This is the birther "logic":

The birth certificate looks too flawed to be the result of well-worn
manual typewriters. It must be the result of flawless computer image
processing and the officials of the State of Hawaii are in on the
conspiracy, along with the FBI and the federal government.

--
Ray Fischer | Mendacracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal

Mr.B1ack

2011-05-04 20:22:16 UTC

Of course not ! The daughters are surely MUCH better
with PhotoShop ! :-)

liberal

2011-05-04 20:11:39 UTC

Post by Mr.B1ack
Of course not ! The daughters are surely MUCH better
with PhotoShop ! :-)

Ahhhhhhh, more information regarding why *YOU* want the statutory age
limit on rape eliminated. Which Obama daughter has caught your
eye...the younger or the older? Enquiring FBI and Secret Service minds
want to know.

Mr.B1ack

2011-05-05 13:15:02 UTC

Post by liberal

Post by Mr.B1ack
Of course not ! The daughters are surely MUCH better
with PhotoShop ! :-)

Frankly, I think they're both gonna turn
out like the Bush twins .... drunken sorority
girls puking their way through spring breaks.

Ray Fischer

2011-05-05 17:49:20 UTC

Post by Mr.B1ack

Post by liberal

Post by Mr.B1ack
Of course not ! The daughters are surely MUCH better
with PhotoShop ! :-)

Frankly, I think they're both gonna turn
out like the Bush twins .... drunken sorority
girls puking their way through spring breaks.

The important difference is that they don't have Bush for a father.

Like father like daughter.

--
Ray Fischer | Mendacracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal

Mr.B1ack

2011-05-05 21:38:06 UTC

Post by Mr.B1ack

Post by liberal

Post by Mr.B1ack
Of course not ! The daughters are surely MUCH better
with PhotoShop ! :-)

Frankly, I think they're both gonna turn
out like the Bush twins .... drunken sorority
girls puking their way through spring breaks.

The important difference is that they don't have Bush for a father.
Like father like daughter.

OB looks like a party guy in
his old pix ....

So ....

Ray Fischer

2011-05-05 06:34:37 UTC

Post by thedarkman
I don't have the slightest interest in this

Don't start off by lying.

Post by thedarkman
but this guy asks some
interesting questions

No he doesn't. He's a racist kook. A sick, paranoid conspiracy lunatic.

--
Ray Fischer | Mendacracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal

richard

2011-05-05 07:39:41 UTC

Post by thedarkman
I don't have the slightest interest in this

Don't start off by lying.

Post by thedarkman
but this guy asks some
interesting questions

No he doesn't. He's a racist kook. A sick, paranoid conspiracy lunatic.

It is only racial when a white man speaks to or about a black man.
It is never racial when a black man speaks to or about a white man.
Why is that?

Ray Fischer

2011-05-05 09:30:15 UTC

Post by richard

Post by thedarkman
I don't have the slightest interest in this

Don't start off by lying.

Post by thedarkman
but this guy asks some
interesting questions

No he doesn't. He's a racist kook. A sick, paranoid conspiracy lunatic.

It is only racial when a white man speaks to or about a black man.

And there's another lie used to justify racism.

--
Ray Fischer | Mendacracy (n.) government by lying
***@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal

TBone

2011-05-05 21:54:40 UTC

Post by richard