Getting expunged from database of mentally ill

[Robert B]

I understand that if you're ever treated for a "mental illness," even
depression, your name is entered into a national database and stays there
forever, even after you've recovered. I was treated for depression by my
physician, who gave me an antidepressant. I also entered a hospital
psychiatric ward because I thought it would speed up recovery. Actually it
was worthless; I hardly ever even saw a doctor or therapist. My depression
resolved a few weeks after I left the hospital. I understand now that
antidepressants take at least several weeks to work and wasn't aware I would
be entered into a database because of it, since depression is extremely
common. But this may affect many aspects of my life, since you have to give
permission to check all your medical records in many situations. The way
things have been going, I may be on the no-fly list now. Is there any way
to get my name expunged from that database without going through a lot of
expense?

[Rob]

Post by Robert B
I also entered a hospital
psychiatric ward because I thought it would speed up recovery. Actually it
was worthless;

The only time it would affect you is if you are a danger to yourself or
others then are involuntarily committed to a hospital. Self admitting
yourself for mental health treatment by itself does not mean anything as
far as your rights are concerned. It is no different then being admitted
for a heart condition.
You could be added to a no-fly list if you were found by a court to be a
danger to yourself or others. Millions of people have been treated for
depression in the USA and they are not automatically added to the no-fly
list.
If you are on a no-fly list you can apply to have yourself removed, but
taking anti-depressants or being admitted voluntarily to a hospital is
usually not a reason to be put on a no-fly list.

[Robert B]

Post by Rob

Post by Robert B
I also entered a hospital
psychiatric ward because I thought it would speed up recovery. Actually it
was worthless;

The only time it would affect you is if you are a danger to yourself or
others then are involuntarily committed to a hospital. Self admitting
yourself for mental health treatment by itself does not mean anything as
far as your rights are concerned. It is no different then being admitted
for a heart condition.

Not according to NJ law, which was recently amended to conform to federal
law. Whether it's voluntary or involuntary, you go on that list. And a lot
of people I met there were just involuntarily dumped into the psych ward for
no good reason. One guy had just taken too much of a medication he was
prescribed for restless leg syndrome. He was in agony from it. He seemed
perfectly normal otherwise. I know from my own experience with reflux that
the medication prescribed for it can bring on this syndrome, which makes it
impossible to sleep or even sit still. Being a "danger to yourself" is
broadly interpreted. One of the criteria for clinical depression is suicidal
ideation, so anyone who is depressed can be classified that way.

30:4-80.8 Application for relief.

1.Any person who has been, or shall be, committed to any institution or
facility providing mental health services, or has been determined to be a
danger to himself, others, or property, or determined to be an incapacitated
individual as defined in N.J.S.3B:1-2, by order of any court or by voluntary
commitment and who was, or shall be, discharged from such institution or
facility as recovered, or whose illness upon discharge, or subsequent to
discharge or determination, is substantially improved or in substantial
remission, may apply to the court by which such commitment was made, or to
the Superior Court by verified petition setting forth the facts and praying
for the relief provided for in this act.

L.1953, c.268, s.1; amended 1976, c.108, s.1; 1978, c.163; 1991, c.91,
s.317; 2009, c.183, s.1.

Post by Rob
You could be added to a no-fly list if you were found by a court to be a
danger to yourself or others. Millions of people have been treated for
depression in the USA and they are not automatically added to the no-fly
list.
If you are on a no-fly list you can apply to have yourself removed, but
taking anti-depressants or being admitted voluntarily to a hospital is
usually not a reason to be put on a no-fly list.

I'm not so sure about that. It's been documented that people have been put
on the no-fly list for all sorts of trivial reasons. In _Give Me Liberty_,
Naomi Wolf describes many cases of that happening to people who protested
government policy. And suppose I need to apply for a security clearance (I
work in a technical area)? That might be considered reason to deny one.




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[richard]

Post by Robert B
I understand that if you're ever treated for a "mental illness," even
depression, your name is entered into a national database and stays there
forever, even after you've recovered. I was treated for depression by my
physician, who gave me an antidepressant. I also entered a hospital
psychiatric ward because I thought it would speed up recovery. Actually it
was worthless; I hardly ever even saw a doctor or therapist. My depression
resolved a few weeks after I left the hospital. I understand now that
antidepressants take at least several weeks to work and wasn't aware I would
be entered into a database because of it, since depression is extremely
common. But this may affect many aspects of my life, since you have to give
permission to check all your medical records in many situations. The way
things have been going, I may be on the no-fly list now. Is there any way
to get my name expunged from that database without going through a lot of
expense?

Good question. About the only reason for such a database would be to keep
track of how often YOU were prescribed certain medications.
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a government
agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from flying.

For legal recourse, you would probably have to file a suit against the
hospital and force them to remove to your name from that database.
But I would first call their legal department and ask what you can do
before filing a suit. Could be nothing more than filling out a simple form.

[Evan Platt]

Post by richard
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a government
agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from flying.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the OP is referring to the
FAA, and thinking of getting a pilots license. In which case the OP
may have to give the FAA access to said medical record in order to
obtain a license.

[Robert B]

Post by Evan Platt

Post by richard
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a government
agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from flying.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the OP is referring to the
FAA, and thinking of getting a pilots license. In which case the OP
may have to give the FAA access to said medical record in order to
obtain a license.

The FAA pilot's license, teaching positions, police or federal agent
positions, ability to own a firearm, possibly getting a security clearance
all involve giving permission to check your physical and mental health
records. They can't force you to give permission, but if you don't you just
don't get what you're applying for. I don't know the name of the federal
law, but I remember it was passed a couple of years ago, requiring the
states to report to the federal government any person who was treated,
voluntarily or involuntarily, in a facility that treats mental health
problems. The federal government maintains them in some database. I don't
think they would put you on the no-fly list for this, but you never know how
they'll use it. So I'd like to get my name removed. I don't see why people
who are treated for the common mental health problems like depression should
be discriminated against like this anyway. And I think it's unfair that I
should have to go through the expense of hiring a lawyer to have my name
expunged.

The vast majority of those who are treated for mental illness have
depression, eating disorders, phobias, etc. They are no more violent or
dangerous than anyone else. In fact, they are more likely to be the targets
than the perpetrators of violence. An extensive study reported in
Psychiatric News said "People with mental illness were eight times more
likely to be robbed, 15 times more likely to be assaulted, and 23 times more
likely to be raped than was the general population. Theft of property from
persons, rare in the general population at 0.2 percent, happens to 21
percent of mentally ill persons, or 140 times as often.



"The direction of causality is the reverse of common belief: persons who are
seriously mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims of violence
than its initiators," said Leon Eisenberg, M.D., professor emeritus of
social medicine and health policy at Harvard Medical School...The evidence
produced by Linda Teplin et al. settles the matter beyond question."

--Aaron Levin, People With Mental Illness More Often Crime Victims,
Psychiatric News September 2, 2005

Volume 40 Number 17 Page 16

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/40/17/16.full

[Bill Graham]

Post by Robert B

Post by Evan Platt

Post by richard
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a
government agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from
flying.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the OP is referring to the
FAA, and thinking of getting a pilots license. In which case the OP
may have to give the FAA access to said medical record in order to
obtain a license.

The FAA pilot's license, teaching positions, police or federal agent
positions, ability to own a firearm, possibly getting a security
clearance all involve giving permission to check your physical and
mental health records. They can't force you to give permission, but
if you don't you just don't get what you're applying for. I don't
know the name of the federal law, but I remember it was passed a
couple of years ago, requiring the states to report to the federal
government any person who was treated, voluntarily or involuntarily,
in a facility that treats mental health problems. The federal
government maintains them in some database. I don't think they would
put you on the no-fly list for this, but you never know how they'll
use it. So I'd like to get my name removed. I don't see why people
who are treated for the common mental health problems like depression
should be discriminated against like this anyway. And I think it's
unfair that I should have to go through the expense of hiring a
lawyer to have my name expunged.
The vast majority of those who are treated for mental illness have
depression, eating disorders, phobias, etc. They are no more violent
or dangerous than anyone else. In fact, they are more likely to be
the targets than the perpetrators of violence. An extensive study
reported in Psychiatric News said "People with mental illness were
eight times more likely to be robbed, 15 times more likely to be
assaulted, and 23 times more likely to be raped than was the general
population. Theft of property from persons, rare in the general
population at 0.2 percent, happens to 21 percent of mentally ill
persons, or 140 times as often.
"The direction of causality is the reverse of common belief: persons
who are seriously mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims
of violence than its initiators," said Leon Eisenberg, M.D.,
professor emeritus of social medicine and health policy at Harvard
Medical School...The evidence produced by Linda Teplin et al. settles
the matter beyond question."
--Aaron Levin, People With Mental Illness More Often Crime Victims,
Psychiatric News September 2, 2005
Volume 40 Number 17 Page 16
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/40/17/16.full

The second amendment says it all. (By what it doesn't say) It doesn't say,
"...except if they are diagnosed with mental health problems." It is very
simple: It says, .....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall
not be infringed."

But, if fact, our government has been infringing the living hell out of that
right all of my life and before I was even born. (1935)

[Robert B]

Post by Bill Graham

Post by Robert B

Post by Evan Platt

Post by richard
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a
government agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from
flying.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the OP is referring to the
FAA, and thinking of getting a pilots license. In which case the OP
may have to give the FAA access to said medical record in order to
obtain a license.

The FAA pilot's license, teaching positions, police or federal agent
positions, ability to own a firearm, possibly getting a security
clearance all involve giving permission to check your physical and
mental health records. They can't force you to give permission, but
if you don't you just don't get what you're applying for. I don't
know the name of the federal law, but I remember it was passed a
couple of years ago, requiring the states to report to the federal
government any person who was treated, voluntarily or involuntarily,
in a facility that treats mental health problems. The federal
government maintains them in some database. I don't think they would
put you on the no-fly list for this, but you never know how they'll
use it. So I'd like to get my name removed. I don't see why people
who are treated for the common mental health problems like depression
should be discriminated against like this anyway. And I think it's
unfair that I should have to go through the expense of hiring a
lawyer to have my name expunged.
The vast majority of those who are treated for mental illness have
depression, eating disorders, phobias, etc. They are no more violent
or dangerous than anyone else. In fact, they are more likely to be
the targets than the perpetrators of violence. An extensive study
reported in Psychiatric News said "People with mental illness were
eight times more likely to be robbed, 15 times more likely to be
assaulted, and 23 times more likely to be raped than was the general
population. Theft of property from persons, rare in the general
population at 0.2 percent, happens to 21 percent of mentally ill
persons, or 140 times as often.
"The direction of causality is the reverse of common belief: persons
who are seriously mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims
of violence than its initiators," said Leon Eisenberg, M.D.,
professor emeritus of social medicine and health policy at Harvard
Medical School...The evidence produced by Linda Teplin et al. settles
the matter beyond question."
--Aaron Levin, People With Mental Illness More Often Crime Victims,
Psychiatric News September 2, 2005
Volume 40 Number 17 Page 16
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/40/17/16.full

The second amendment says it all. (By what it doesn't say) It doesn't say,
"...except if they are diagnosed with mental health problems." It is very
simple: It says, .....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall
not be infringed."
But, if fact, our government has been infringing the living hell out of
that right all of my life and before I was even born. (1935)

I agree, and a lot of other rights. And the distinction between a mental
and physical illness is rather arbitrary. Depression is caused by an
imbalance in neurotransmitters in the brain and related physical factors.
We don't discriminate against people who can't produce insulin effectively
and develop diabetes (which can cause sudden blackouts while driving). We
should go back to the old standard that it's what a person actually does
that counts, not what he might do. As Jefferson said:
"A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one
another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of
industry and improvement."

--Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address 1801

[Dave M.]

Post by Robert B
We don't discriminate against people who can't produce insulin effectively
and develop diabetes (which can cause sudden blackouts while driving).

It was very difficult until recently to hold a pilot's license with
diabetes. There's still scrutiny
In California a patient who drives and has reported blackouts must, by
law, be reported to the DMV.
Your arguments are not backed up by the facts that you cite.

Dave M.

[jigo]

Post by Dave M.

Post by Robert B
We don't discriminate against people who can't produce insulin effectively
and develop diabetes (which can cause sudden blackouts while driving).

It was very difficult until recently to hold a pilot's license with
diabetes. There's still scrutiny
In California a patient who drives and has reported blackouts must, by
law, be reported to the DMV.
Your arguments are not backed up by the facts that you cite.

The fact that something is or was once the law doesn't make it right.
The problem with those arguments is that it lumps everyone with a
general illness together. But the vast majority of people with diabetes
do not get sudden blackouts. Similarly, the vast majority of the
mentally ill are not dangerous. They are more likely to be the victims
than the perpetrators of violence.

[Bill Graham]

Post by jigo

Post by Dave M.

Post by Robert B
We don't discriminate against people who can't produce insulin
effectively and develop diabetes (which can cause sudden blackouts
while driving).

It was very difficult until recently to hold a pilot's license
with diabetes. There's still scrutiny
In California a patient who drives and has reported blackouts
must, by law, be reported to the DMV.
Your arguments are not backed up by the facts that you cite.

The fact that something is or was once the law doesn't make it right.

The fact that something is the law right now, doesn't make it right
either..... In Judgement at Nuremburg, Spencer Tracy said, "It is not the
right, but the responsibility, for good men to break bad laws." That is
truer today than it ever was.

[Dave M.]

You both miss the point. Robert claimed that diabetics are not
discriminated against. He is wrong. I provide 2 examples. His screeds are
full of half truths.

Dave M.

[jigo]

Post by Dave M.
You both miss the point. Robert claimed that diabetics are not
discriminated against. He is wrong. I provide 2 examples. His screeds are
full of half truths.

Is there a national database for diabetics? It seems to me you're
equating the one or two restrictions on diabetics with the many
restrictions that the mentally ill and even former mentally ill must face.

[Dave M.]

Is there a national database for diabetics? It seems to me you're equating
the one or two restrictions on diabetics with the many restrictions that
the mentally ill and even former mentally ill must face.

My first post in this thread asked the question "what database?". This
was not answered. So I'll ask again, what database.
Googling "US national database of the mentally ill" does not reveal a
database. With further looking the state of New York did investigate
creating a database but nothing happened. Lets be clear. I want to know of a
database that shows that John Doe, SS #, Address, et c. had or has a mental
illness.
The OP seems to believe that there is a list of everyone who ever took
Paxil. I doubt this.

Dave M

[Kent Wills]

At one time, not so long ago, "Bill Graham" <***@comcast.net> wrote:

[...]

Post by Bill Graham
The second amendment says it all. (By what it doesn't say) It doesn't say,
"...except if they are diagnosed with mental health problems." It is very
simple: It says, .....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall
not be infringed."
But, if fact, our government has been infringing the living hell out of that
right all of my life and before I was even born. (1935)

With some it is easy to accept that they shouldn't be allowed to
posses a gun. I wouldn't want someone who has been convicted of
beating his/her spouse having free access to a gun.
Someone who has committed armed robbery is also someone who
probably shouldn't be permitted to posses such weapons.
Depending on the mental illness in question, banning fire arms
would be wise.
If, as with the case of the OP, it was "standard" depression,
banning the possession of a fire arm makes no justifiable sense. If
the person's mental illness makes them believe they are on earth to
kill as many heretics as possible, making it very difficult to obtain
a gun would be a wise move.
However, your point about the Second Amendment is actually valid.
It states that the right shall not be infringed.
It's difficult to balance rights with safety.

[Kent Wills]

Post by Robert B

Post by Evan Platt

Post by richard
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a government
agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from flying.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the OP is referring to the
FAA, and thinking of getting a pilots license. In which case the OP
may have to give the FAA access to said medical record in order to
obtain a license.

The FAA pilot's license, teaching positions, police or federal agent
positions, ability to own a firearm, possibly getting a security clearance
all involve giving permission to check your physical and mental health
records. They can't force you to give permission, but if you don't you just
don't get what you're applying for. I don't know the name of the federal
law, but I remember it was passed a couple of years ago, requiring the
states to report to the federal government any person who was treated,
voluntarily or involuntarily, in a facility that treats mental health
problems. The federal government maintains them in some database. I don't
think they would put you on the no-fly list for this, but you never know how
they'll use it.

Do you know that you're on the no-fly list? It's possible you're
worried about a situation that does not exist.

Post by Robert B
So I'd like to get my name removed. I don't see why people
who are treated for the common mental health problems like depression should
be discriminated against like this anyway. And I think it's unfair that I
should have to go through the expense of hiring a lawyer to have my name
expunged.

You aren't required to do so. It would be much easier with a
lawyer, since s/he will know far better what needs to be done and
when. However, you are allowed to go it alone.

[...]

Don't worry about possible problems. Until you KNOW you have
been added to the no-fly list, don't fret over it.

[Bill Graham]

Post by richard

Post by Robert B
I understand that if you're ever treated for a "mental illness," even
depression, your name is entered into a national database and stays
there forever, even after you've recovered. I was treated for
depression by my physician, who gave me an antidepressant. I also
entered a hospital psychiatric ward because I thought it would speed
up recovery. Actually it was worthless; I hardly ever even saw a
doctor or therapist. My depression resolved a few weeks after I left
the hospital. I understand now that antidepressants take at least
several weeks to work and wasn't aware I would be entered into a
database because of it, since depression is extremely common. But
this may affect many aspects of my life, since you have to give
permission to check all your medical records in many situations. The
way things have been going, I may be on the no-fly list now. Is
there any way to get my name expunged from that database without
going through a lot of expense?

Good question. About the only reason for such a database would be to
keep track of how often YOU were prescribed certain medications.
Specific medical records are privileged information. So even a
government agency couldn't have access to that and prevent you from
flying.
For legal recourse, you would probably have to file a suit against the
hospital and force them to remove to your name from that database.
But I would first call their legal department and ask what you can do
before filing a suit. Could be nothing more than filling out a simple form.

I had a similar, but non-mental problem. I was taking Actos, a diabetes drug
for type two diabetes. It made my feet (and whole body) retain water. A
nurse practicioner in my doctors office, said I had endema. (at that time,
they didn't know that Actos did that to people) Then, I was turned down for
nursing home insurance because of the "endima". Now, I no longer take Actos,
no longer have swollen feet, but remain ineligible for nursing home
insurance..... Seems to be a common problem with the medical industry,
doesn't it? Once some loon puts something in your medical record, it will
stick around to haunt you for the rest of your life.

[Dave M.]

Robert,

Be specific. What database?

Dave Martel