Discussion:
HOW2 get embarassing fact on the record/press even when out of time?
(too old to reply)
A***@gmail.com
2013-05-09 06:29:09 UTC
Permalink
How to prevent injustices from being swept under the carpet by
'you're out of time' tricks?

Obviously the more chaotic the society becomes, the more unrealistic
it is to meet statutory time-limits, legislated during stable times.

Eg. time limits legislated during 'normal' conditions, can't be met
during a war-on-the-home-territory.

Are there any citations/literatue on this topic?

Since the early exposure of Madoc (sp?) would have effectively
been a kind of judicial action: merely by making the knowledge public;
isn't it realistic to use public media to expose and discipline?

How would/did the judicial system in your jurisdiction adapt
to changing conditions, from whatever cause, to the impossibilty
to meet statutory time limits?

Obviously the press uses the judicial system as the first level filter.
So that the press only rports that which has been flagged by the Courts.
How often do matters become exposed, which were 'brought', but
rejected for 'out of time' grounds?

What are common tactics used to counter 'avoiding exposure by
out of time'?

== TIA.
Greegor
2013-05-10 02:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by A***@gmail.com
How to prevent injustices from being swept under the carpet by
'you're out of time' tricks?
Obviously the more chaotic the society becomes, the more unrealistic
it is to meet statutory time-limits, legislated during stable times.
Eg. time limits legislated during 'normal' conditions, can't be met
during a war-on-the-home-territory.
Are there any citations/literatue on this topic?
Since the early exposure of Madoc (sp?) would have effectively
been a kind of judicial action: merely by making the knowledge public;
isn't it realistic to use public media to expose and discipline?
How would/did the judicial system in your jurisdiction adapt
to changing conditions, from whatever cause, to the impossibilty
to meet statutory time limits?
Obviously the press uses the judicial system as the first level filter.
So that the press only rports that which has been flagged by the Courts.
How often do matters become exposed, which were 'brought', but
rejected for 'out of time' grounds?
What are common tactics used to counter 'avoiding exposure by
out of time'?
== TIA.
Depositions?
j***@zajuris.org
2013-05-10 17:15:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by A***@gmail.com
How to prevent injustices from being swept under the carpet by
'you're out of time' tricks?
Obviously the more chaotic the society becomes, the more unrealistic
it is to meet statutory time-limits, legislated during stable times.
Eg. time limits legislated during 'normal' conditions, can't be met
during a war-on-the-home-territory.
How would/did the judicial system in your jurisdiction adapt
to changing conditions, from whatever cause, to the impossibilty
to meet statutory time limits?
Obviously the press uses the judicial system as the first level filter.
So that the press only rports that which has been flagged by the Courts.
How often do matters become exposed, which were 'brought', but
rejected for 'out of time' grounds?
What are common tactics used to counter 'avoiding exposure by
out of time'?
You do not say where what you call 'tricks' occurred or probably
would occur or what such 'tricks' are in any other respect. You
therefore do not post any reason to conclude that your use of that
word is anything more than contentless invective that accordingly does
not refute that what call 'tricks' are not that and instead relate to
basically fair and easy to verify and comply with 'you're out of time'
and 'you'll be in time if ...' rules - usually no more subtle or
complicated than, 'Flush the toilet after peeing' or, Stop for red
traffic lights when driving an automobile'.

Also for the most part in litigation, an adverse party's abuse of
such rules that really do amount to a 'trick' can be relatively easy
to redress if the party claiming to be 'tricked' does not compound his
delay by deciding to wait too long before seeking relief or by seeking
relief in a merely reflexive and ill informed manner instead of
actually proving that a 'trick' caused him to act only out of time.

Unfortunately also, no reasonably informed person would deny that
there are occasions and places in the world where social, economic,
and political conditions fairly describable as corruption, arbitrary
exercise of governmental including judicial power, war, a devastating
tornado, or the like, are reflected in a breakdown in law for many.

But to be more than an empty hand wringing shibboleth, complaints
in the form merely of rhetorical questions as in your posting that do
not identify the jurisdiction in question and also describe the
particular nature of whatever you would contend to be a 'trick' that
results from conditions so 'chaotic' that the person of interest to
you would be or has been prevented from abiding by whatever are the
time limits to which you so vaguely advert, one would need to know
this information with some particularity
Post by A***@gmail.com
Are there any citations/literatue on this topic?
Yes. Reasonably focused investigation by you would result in you
learning that not only as a matter of abstract theory and rather as a
matter of actual practice, different legal systems world wide provide
for various 'force majeure' related principles that are used by
litigants and courts to avoid or at least substantially mitigate a
structurally caused inability to comply with otherwise governing time
limits for action. Generally speaking, too, defaults that are willful
or result from a reckless disregard of limitations of time are not and
ordinarily should not be excused.
Greegor
2013-05-13 14:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by A***@gmail.com
How to prevent injustices from being swept under the carpet by
'you're out of time' tricks?
Obviously the more chaotic the society becomes, the more unrealistic
it is to meet statutory time-limits, legislated during stable times.
Eg. time limits legislated during 'normal' conditions, can't be met
during a war-on-the-home-territory.
How would/did the judicial system in your jurisdiction adapt
to changing conditions, from whatever cause, to the impossibilty
to meet statutory time limits?
Obviously the press uses the judicial system as the first level filter.
So that the press only rports that which has been flagged by the Courts.
How often do matters become exposed, which were 'brought', but
rejected for 'out of time' grounds?
What are common tactics used to counter 'avoiding exposure by
out of time'?
     You do not say where what you call 'tricks' occurred or probably
would occur or what such 'tricks' are in any other respect.  You
therefore do not post any reason to conclude that your use of that
word is anything more than contentless invective that accordingly does
not refute that what call 'tricks' are not that and instead relate to
basically fair and easy to verify and comply with 'you're out of time'
and 'you'll be in time if ...' rules - usually no more subtle or
complicated than, 'Flush the toilet after peeing' or, Stop for red
traffic lights when driving an automobile'.
     Also for the most part in litigation, an adverse party's abuse of
such rules that really do amount to a 'trick' can be relatively easy
to redress if the party claiming to be 'tricked' does not compound his
delay by deciding to wait too long before seeking relief or by seeking
relief in a merely reflexive and ill informed manner instead of
actually proving that a 'trick' caused him to act only out of time.
     Unfortunately also, no reasonably informed person would deny that
there are occasions and places in the world where social, economic,
and political conditions fairly describable as corruption, arbitrary
exercise of governmental including judicial power, war, a devastating
tornado, or the like, are reflected in a breakdown in law for many.
     But to be more than an empty hand wringing shibboleth, complaints
in the form merely of rhetorical questions as in your posting that do
not identify the jurisdiction in question and also describe the
particular nature of whatever you would contend to be a 'trick' that
results from conditions so 'chaotic' that the person of interest to
you would be or has been prevented from abiding by whatever are the
time limits to which you so vaguely advert, one would need to know
this information with some particularity
Post by A***@gmail.com
Are there any citations/literatue on this topic?
     Yes.  Reasonably focused investigation by you would result in you
learning that not only as a matter of abstract theory and rather as a
matter of actual practice, different legal systems world wide provide
for various 'force majeure' related principles that are used by
litigants and courts to avoid or at least substantially mitigate a
structurally caused inability to comply with otherwise governing time
limits for action.  Generally speaking, too, defaults that are willful
or result from a reckless disregard of limitations of time are not and
ordinarily should not be excused.
Your response was verbose and circuitous.
Were you actually trying to obfuscate?
j***@zajuris.org
2013-05-13 15:32:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 May 2013 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
Post by Greegor
/snip/- see thread's earlier postings for full context if interested/
Your response was verbose and circuitous.
Were you actually trying to obfuscate?
No. It was not circuitous and not intended to obfuscate. If the
original poster was genuinely posing questions and not just using
invective like 'tricks' to troll merely in the guise of a query and if
he read and addressed the response for himself in a particularized
manner, his understanding would have been, and if he did do this would
be, enhanced.
deadrat
2013-05-13 17:48:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@zajuris.org
On Mon, 13 May 2013 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
Post by Greegor
/snip/- see thread's earlier postings for full context if interested/
Your response was verbose and circuitous.
Were you actually trying to obfuscate?
No. It was not circuitous
Sadly, no. Here's a paragraph from one of your previous posts

<quote>
Also for the most part in litigation, an adverse party's abuse of
such rules that really do amount to a 'trick' can be relatively easy
to redress if the party claiming to be 'tricked' does not compound his
delay by deciding to wait too long before seeking relief or by seeking
relief in a merely reflexive and ill informed manner instead of
actually proving that a 'trick' caused him to act only out of time.
</quote>

That's 75 words.

Here's my rephrase, which conveys the same information

<rephrase>
A party to a lawsuit who has been "tricked" by the opposing side's
misuse of judicial rules may easily find a remedy. This requires
seeking relief with a timely and well-documented petition to the court.
</rephrase>

That's 35 words, less than half your verbiage. I'm sure others can do
better.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
and not intended to obfuscate. If the
original poster was genuinely posing questions and not just using
invective like 'tricks' to troll merely in the guise of a query and if
he read and addressed the response for himself in a particularized
manner, his understanding would have been, and if he did do this would
be, enhanced.
I'm not criticizing your intent (which I have no way to discern),
neither your accuracy, although it's not clear to me that the "redress"
you mention is so easily obtained. I'm talking about your writing
style, which is awkward, repetitive, and discursive. In short, you're a
terrible writer.

And that's too bad, because that style prevents others from
understanding your ideas. Wading through your welter of words isn't
worth the effort. I'd welcome an informed discussion with you on the
topic at hand. I just don't have all day to disentangle your syntax.
j***@zajuris.org
2013-05-13 19:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by deadrat
Post by j***@zajuris.org
On Mon, 13 May 2013 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
Post by Greegor
/snip/- see thread's earlier postings for full context if interested/
Your response was verbose and circuitous.
Were you actually trying to obfuscate?
No. It was not circuitous
Sadly, no. Here's a paragraph from one of your previous posts
<quote>
Also for the most part in litigation, an adverse party's abuse of
such rules that really do amount to a 'trick' can be relatively easy
to redress if the party claiming to be 'tricked' does not compound his
delay by deciding to wait too long before seeking relief or by seeking
relief in a merely reflexive and ill informed manner instead of
actually proving that a 'trick' caused him to act only out of time.
</quote>
That's 75 words.
Here's my rephrase, which conveys the same information
<rephrase>
A party to a lawsuit who has been "tricked" by the opposing side's
misuse of judicial rules may easily find a remedy. This requires
seeking relief with a timely and well-documented petition to the court.
</rephrase>
That's 35 words, less than half your verbiage. I'm sure others can do
better.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
and not intended to obfuscate. If the
original poster was genuinely posing questions and not just using
invective like 'tricks' to troll merely in the guise of a query and if
he read and addressed the response for himself in a particularized
manner, his understanding would have been, and if he did do this would
be, enhanced. .... In short, you're a terrible writer.
Except perhaps as a matter of formal esthetics, de gustibus non
est disputandum. So I won't argue against the gist of your criticism.

Some - undoubtedly including you - may criticize me as being too
prolix (for their or your taste) and maybe also more than a bit
perverse in news group posting since, except for an almost always
present this-would-be-shorter-if-I-had-more-time condition, how I say
what I say is deliberate.

This includes being able to express myself tersely when I choose.

For example, I could but for several reasons would disagree that I
should have written,
"A litigant 'tricked' by an adversary's abuse of procedural rules
may ordinarily may easily be granted relief if he acts in a timely and
well-documented manner [24 words]" or,
"There commonly are remedies from actual 'tricks' [7 words]."
Post by deadrat
I'm not criticizing your intent (which I have no way to discern),
neither your accuracy, although it's not clear to me that the "redress"
you mention is so easily obtained.
Regarding what is and is not clear is concerned, I guess you forgot
to remember what "for the most part" and the "relatively" qualifier of
"easily" indicates.

(In fairness to the original poster, he has claimed more than once
that he resides in a jurisdiction whose courts are tainted by severe
inefficiency and sometimes also by corruption. Relief to him if had
been actually "tricked" therefore might not be relatively easy for him
to obtain. It is just that he has never posted any facts that justify
concluding that he ever was "tricked" by an adverse party's abuse by
any judicial misconduct or, for that matter, by any rule of law
whereas his postings when he has posted what he contends are factual
particulars show that his lack of litigation success has resulted from
his own choices and conduct.)
Post by deadrat
.... Wading through your welter of words isn't
worth the effort. I'd welcome an informed discussion with you on
the topic at hand. I just don't have all day to disentangle your syntax.
I am no less capable than you in having an informed discussion on
the topics at hand as the original poster presumed his topic to be and
also about what modes of expression do and do not "convey the same
information" but, as you indicate, this is not the occasion and, more
generally, neither you nor anyone else is obliged to read or to agree
with what I say.
deadrat
2013-05-13 21:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
Post by j***@zajuris.org
On Mon, 13 May 2013 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
Post by Greegor
/snip/- see thread's earlier postings for full context if interested/
Your response was verbose and circuitous.
Were you actually trying to obfuscate?
No. It was not circuitous
Sadly, no. Here's a paragraph from one of your previous posts
<quote>
Also for the most part in litigation, an adverse party's abuse of
such rules that really do amount to a 'trick' can be relatively easy
to redress if the party claiming to be 'tricked' does not compound his
delay by deciding to wait too long before seeking relief or by seeking
relief in a merely reflexive and ill informed manner instead of
actually proving that a 'trick' caused him to act only out of time.
</quote>
That's 75 words.
Here's my rephrase, which conveys the same information
<rephrase>
A party to a lawsuit who has been "tricked" by the opposing side's
misuse of judicial rules may easily find a remedy. This requires
seeking relief with a timely and well-documented petition to the court.
</rephrase>
That's 35 words, less than half your verbiage. I'm sure others can do
better.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
and not intended to obfuscate. If the
original poster was genuinely posing questions and not just using
invective like 'tricks' to troll merely in the guise of a query and if
he read and addressed the response for himself in a particularized
manner, his understanding would have been, and if he did do this would
be, enhanced. .... In short, you're a terrible writer.
Except perhaps as a matter of formal esthetics, de gustibus non
est disputandum.
De you ever read what you write? What the hell is "formal" esthetics?
The academic study of taste? The philosophy of taste? So except in the
matter of taste where disputandum est, in matters of taste non est
disuptandum.

Sure.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
So I won't argue against the gist of your criticism.
Except that you just did.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Some - undoubtedly including you - may criticize me as being too
prolix (for their or your taste) and maybe also more than a bit
perverse in news group posting since, except for an almost always
present this-would-be-shorter-if-I-had-more-time condition, how I say
what I say is deliberate.
So you think that your deliberation excuses your opacity?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
This includes being able to express myself tersely when I choose.
Then by all means, so choose.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
For example, I could but for several reasons would disagree that I
should have written,
"A litigant 'tricked' by an adversary's abuse of procedural rules
may ordinarily may easily be granted relief if he acts in a timely and
well-documented manner [24 words]" or,
"There commonly are remedies from actual 'tricks' [7 words]."
In your haste to assure me that you can write clearly, you write "may
ordinarily may easily" and use "remedies from," when the English idiom
is "rememdies for." Not necessarily encouraging.

But if you can write clearly and directly, why not do so?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
I'm not criticizing your intent (which I have no way to discern),
neither your accuracy, although it's not clear to me that the "redress"
you mention is so easily obtained.
Regarding what is and is not clear is concerned, I guess you forgot
to remember what "for the most part" and the "relatively" qualifier of
"easily" indicates.
I didn't forget. Neither of these qualifiers conveys any useful
information, so I eliminated them. You might have a point if you had
statistics to present on the chances for success of such prayers for
relief or if you could compare the ease of getting the court to grant
such relief as compared to say, getting a court to grand summary
judgment. But you don't, so these words are merely padding.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
(In fairness to the original poster, he has claimed more than once
that he resides in a jurisdiction whose courts are tainted by severe
inefficiency and sometimes also by corruption.
Do you mean that the OP has repeatedly claimed that his courts are
inefficient and corrupt?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Relief to him if had
been actually "tricked" therefore might not be relatively easy for him
to obtain.
Although you claimed that it would be.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
It is just that he has never posted any facts that justify
concluding that he ever was "tricked" by an adverse party's abuse by
any judicial misconduct or, for that matter, by any rule of law
whereas his postings when he has posted what he contends are factual
particulars show that his lack of litigation success has resulted from
his own choices and conduct.)
Do you mean that the the failures of the OP in court arise from his
ignorance of the law and not from the underhanded operation of his
adversaries?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
.... Wading through your welter of words isn't
worth the effort. I'd welcome an informed discussion with you on
the topic at hand. I just don't have all day to disentangle your syntax.
I am no less capable than you in having an informed discussion on
the topics at hand
This is certainly possible, but who has the time to hack through the
thicket of your words to find out?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
as the original poster presumed his topic
I'm lost already. What does the OP's presumption about his topic have
to do with your discussion of said topic?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
to be and
also about what modes of expression do and do not "convey the same
information"
Again, this is possible, but the opacity of your writing undercuts this
assertion.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
but, as you indicate, this is not the occasion
Although you have taken just that occasion in your post.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
and, more
generally, neither you nor anyone else is obliged to read or to agree
with what I say.
I don't say otherwise. People usually write for an audience beyond
themselves and are interested in how effective they are in communicating
their ideas to that audience. You are bad at that.

If you don't agree with that assessment or don't care to hear it, then,
oh, well.
j***@zajuris.org
2013-05-16 14:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by deadrat
....
/snips/- see thread's earlier postings for full context if interested/
....
De you ever read what you write? What the hell is "formal" esthetics?
The academic study of taste? The philosophy of taste?
The word "esthetics" standing alone has a variety different
colloquial and more formal meanings. As you know. And, yes - since
before and long after Aristotle, the study and teaching of esthetics
as a formal matter has been an important branch of philosophy, at
least for those who are interested and make the effort to educate
themselves, and there are Ph.D programs at a number of leading
universities - for example, at Columbia University - where the
requirements for an "esthetics" Ph.D are comparatively much more
rigorous and subtantive than, say, in anthropology and economics
departments. But the study of "formal" esthetics is not confined to a
philosophical study only of "taste" in the colloquial senses of that
word.

If it is true that you are unaware of this, so be it, although I
confess that I doubt that you are unaware of this while you pretend
otherwise to indulge in verbal sparring for its own sake.
Post by deadrat
So I won't argue against the gist of your criticism.
Except that you just did.
No, I did not and, except for a brief and only partial explanatory
comment below, still do not. However, and as I did say, neither this
news group thread nor news group postings more generally provide a
desirable and meaningful forum make arguments against the reasoning
component instead of mere conclusory bleat gist of your criticism.
Post by deadrat
Some - undoubtedly including you - may criticize me as being too
prolix (for their or your taste) and maybe also more than a bit
perverse in news group posting since, except for an almost always
present this-would-be-shorter-if-I-had-more-time condition, how I say
what I say is deliberate.
So you think that your deliberation excuses your opacity?
This includes being able to express myself tersely when I choose.
Then by all means, so choose.
...
In your haste to assure me that you can write clearly, you write "may
ordinarily may easily" and use "remedies from," when the English idiom
is "rememdies for." Not necessarily encouraging.
This merely, and obviously, was a minor typographical error.
,
Post by deadrat
But if you can write clearly and directly, why not do so?
As I also said, I can do this and do this when I think it
appropriate, which not incidentally is often even if sometimes less so
in some new group postings.

I prefer not to explain, but: As most relevant to this thread as
initially framed by the original poster, suffice to say that reasons
to express what I did how I did are intended to slow down the reader
so that the person who makes the effort will understand as fully as
possible what is being said and why.
Post by deadrat
... I People usually write for an audience beyond themselves
and are interested in how effective they are in communicating
their ideas to that audience. You are bad at that.
An ironic corollary as applied, about which you appear to be
clueless, is that, having read quite a few postings from others who
responded to many of your news group postings, you seem to have been
less than substantially successful in communicating to many of them
despite the fact that your postings generally are terse and logically
well organized.

(Probably not incidentally, there is reason to believe that the
original poster, to whom I primarily addressed my comments, basically
understands and has learned from this approach.)
Post by deadrat
(In fairness to the original poster, he has claimed more than once
that he resides in a jurisdiction whose courts are tainted by severe
inefficiency and sometimes also by corruption.
Do you mean that the OP has repeatedly claimed that his courts are
inefficient and corrupt?
I mean that he has claimed more than once that his jurisdiction's
courts are tainted by severe inefficiency and sometimes also by
corruption.
Post by deadrat
It is just that he has never posted any facts that justify
concluding that he ever was "tricked" by an adverse party's abuse by
any judicial misconduct or, for that matter, by any rule of law
whereas his postings when he has posted what he contends are factual
particulars show that his lack of litigation success has resulted from
his own choices and conduct.)
Do you mean that the the failures of the OP in court arise from his
ignorance of the law and not from the underhanded operation of his
adversaries?
Actually, no. I mean that he has not how or even that he was
"tricked" and, while this thread did not provide the occasion for more
detail in this connection, I suggested on the basis of what was
suggested by his present posting and also by other of his postings
that his lack of litigation success has resulted from his own choices
and conduct - choices and conduct that resulted less from a certain
kind of ignorance, not ignorance more generally, which I and others
have addressed elsewhere.

I am only slightly curious whether, as I guess, you will fail to
have the self-restraint to refrain from insisting on having the last
word between us about these matters in this by now tedious exchange
which has drifted far from the from the subjects that the original
poster claimed to interest him.
deadrat
2013-05-16 19:29:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
....
/snips/- see thread's earlier postings for full context if interested/
....
De you ever read what you write? What the hell is "formal" esthetics?
The academic study of taste? The philosophy of taste?
The word "esthetics" standing alone has a variety different
colloquial and more formal meanings. As you know. And, yes - since
before and long after Aristotle, the study and teaching of esthetics
as a formal matter has been an important branch of philosophy, at
least for those who are interested and make the effort to educate
themselves, and there are Ph.D programs at a number of leading
universities - for example, at Columbia University - where the
requirements for an "esthetics" Ph.D are comparatively much more
rigorous and subtantive than, say, in anthropology and economics
departments. But the study of "formal" esthetics is not confined to a
philosophical study only of "taste" in the colloquial senses of that
word.
If it is true that you are unaware of this, so be it, although I
confess that I doubt that you are unaware of this
Your doubts are well founded. My questions were intended to illustrate
the ridiculousness of your trying to justify your redundant and awkward
style by appealing to "formal esthetics." Not least because your
writing violates every rule that Aristotle lays out for rhetoric.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
while you pretend
otherwise to indulge in verbal sparring for its own sake.
OK, somewhat guilty as charged.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
So I won't argue against the gist of your criticism.
Except that you just did.
No, I did not and, except for a brief and only partial explanatory
comment below, still do not.
So you did not except where you did?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
However, and as I did say, neither this
news group thread nor news group postings more generally provide a
desirable and meaningful forum make arguments against the reasoning
component instead of mere conclusory bleat gist of your criticism.
Either you don't read misc.legal, or you can't tell that, in fact, that
forum rarely provides meaningful comments on legal issues.

Either you can't read for comprehension any better than you can write
for comprehension, or you don't know what the word "conclusory" means.

I expect no one but you knows what a "bleat gist" is.

Again, my comments do not go to the matter of your reasoning. You might
actually know what you're talking about, and your contributions might be
both enlightening and helpful. But who can tell what gems are buried in
your blizzard of verbiage and awkward construction?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
Some - undoubtedly including you - may criticize me as being too
prolix (for their or your taste) and maybe also more than a bit
perverse in news group posting since, except for an almost always
present this-would-be-shorter-if-I-had-more-time condition, how I say
what I say is deliberate.
So you think that your deliberation excuses your opacity?
This includes being able to express myself tersely when I choose.
Then by all means, so choose.
...
In your haste to assure me that you can write clearly, you write "may
ordinarily may easily" and use "remedies from," when the English idiom
is "rememdies for." Not necessarily encouraging.
This merely, and obviously, was a minor typographical error.
I'll take your word for that. But it's hard to tell in the confusion of
your writing, which slips are minor typographical errors and which are
deliberate unhelpful verbosity.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
But if you can write clearly and directly, why not do so?
As I also said, I can do this and do this when I think it
appropriate, which not incidentally is often even if sometimes less so
in some new group postings.
When is it inappropriate to write clearly?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
I prefer not to explain, but: As most relevant to this thread as
initially framed by the original poster, suffice to say that reasons
to express what I did how I did are intended to slow down the reader
so that the person who makes the effort will understand as fully as
possible what is being said and why.
So you write in a convoluted manner so that your reader must read more
slowly and take more effort to understand you? This is like advocating
littering the highways with traffic hazards so that drivers will have to
slow down and drive more attentively.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
... I People usually write for an audience beyond themselves
and are interested in how effective they are in communicating
their ideas to that audience. You are bad at that.
An ironic corollary as applied, about which you appear to be
clueless, is that, having read quite a few postings from others who
responded to many of your news group postings, you seem to have been
less than substantially successful in communicating to many of them
despite the fact that your postings generally are terse and logically
well organized.
Let's see if we can translate this into ordinary English. I'll give it
a first try: "It's ironic that your own postings confuse your
correspondents, although your responses are terse and logical. And you
seem unaware of this fact." How'd I do?

Well, in the first place a corollary is a statement that logically
follows immediately from a preceding argument. You've made no preceding
argument about my writing, so clearly "corollary" is another word you're
unfamiliar with. Secondly, may we have some evidence that my posts are
confusing to my correspondents. (I'm guessing that's what "less than
substantially successful in communicating" means.)

Of course it's entirely possible that I confuse more than I enlighten,
and I eagerly await the evidence for your claim. It's certainly true
that many people don't agree with what I write, but that's different.
Post by j***@zajuris.org
(Probably not incidentally, there is reason to believe that the
original poster, to whom I primarily addressed my comments, basically
understands and has learned from this approach.)
I'd say there was no reason to believe that at all. Why would you think
that?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
(In fairness to the original poster, he has claimed more than once
that he resides in a jurisdiction whose courts are tainted by severe
inefficiency and sometimes also by corruption.
Do you mean that the OP has repeatedly claimed that his courts are
inefficient and corrupt?
I mean that he has claimed more than once that his jurisdiction's
courts are tainted by severe inefficiency and sometimes also by
corruption.
Was that a yes or a no? Is "inefficient" different from "tainted by
severe inefficiency"?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
Post by deadrat
It is just that he has never posted any facts that justify
concluding that he ever was "tricked" by an adverse party's abuse by
any judicial misconduct or, for that matter, by any rule of law
whereas his postings when he has posted what he contends are factual
particulars show that his lack of litigation success has resulted from
his own choices and conduct.)
Do you mean that the the failures of the OP in court arise from his
ignorance of the law and not from the underhanded operation of his
adversaries?
Actually, no. I mean that he has not how or even that he was
"tricked" and, while this thread did not provide the occasion for more
detail in this connection, I suggested on the basis of what was
suggested by his present posting and also by other of his postings
that his lack of litigation success has resulted from his own choices
and conduct - choices and conduct that resulted less from a certain
kind of ignorance, not ignorance more generally, which I and others
have addressed elsewhere.
So that's an actual no. In what manner do the two phrasings differ in
meaning?
Post by j***@zajuris.org
I am only slightly curious whether, as I guess, you will fail to
have the self-restraint to refrain from insisting on having the last
word between us about these matters in this by now tedious exchange
which has drifted far from the from the subjects that the original
poster claimed to interest him.
A couple of points:

I don't intend to be lectured on self-restrain by someone who cannot
control his own verbal excesses.

This exchange isn't about the original poster and his interests. It's
about your failings as a writer.

If you find my criticism too tedious to take seriously, then I'll just
have to find a way to soldier on with my life.

Finally, Brave Sir Robin, if you can't or don't feel like responding,
then don't. How could I possibly compel you to do otherwise?
Greegor
2013-05-14 04:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Aspergers much?
Greegor
2013-05-16 20:13:39 UTC
Permalink
You're a regular "Stand Up Philosopher".



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